Tuesday, November 27, 2007
The Roles of Women
Women play important roles in motivating action and shaping the future. Helen, for example, is the immediate cause of the Trojan War. Briseis is the cause of the rift between Achilleus and Agamemnon. Athene, Thetis, and other goddesses also affect the action of The Iliad. Which female in the epic do you feel played the most significant role? Why? Provide at least one supporting quotation.
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I feel that Helen played the most significant role in The Iliad. This is because the Trojan War basically started because of her. If Paris did not have to have the finest goddess, then he would not have needed to steal Helen from her husband. Women at the time were used as prizes and the finest men had to have the finest prizes. The 10 year war was because of Helen and if she was not in the story; there would be not point to it. Helen led men to do things that would have probably never been done if she weren’t around. Even though men at the time wanted to be heroes, they were scared to go into the Trojan War and fight. If you think about it, a war over a woman that people are frightened to go into is serious.
“How I wish that on that day when my mother first bore me the foul whirlwind of the storm ahead caught me away and swept me to the mountain, or into the wash of the sea deep-thundering where the waves would have swept me away before all these things had happened.” (VI. 21-24) Helen is saying that she wishes that she was never on Earth long enough to experience what she is going through right now. She does not want to be with Paris and is telling him that in a very subtle yet harsh way. She states that she would rather have been swept away by cruel wind than be standing in front of Paris at the moment.
I believe Helen played the most necessary woman role in "The Iliad" for a few important reasons. First of all, Helen started the Trojan War which is critical for "The Iliad". The Trojan War is the main theme of the story and would not exist without Helen. She also was attempting to persuade Hektor into not leaving to fight. Of course, he did return to battle with Paris, which concluded in his death. If Paris stayed like Helen told him to, the story would not end this way.
"To my abhorred and sinful self, would that a whirlwind had caught me up on the day my mother brought me forth, and had borne me to some mountain or to the waves of the roaring sea that should have swept me away ere this mischief had come about."
I strongly agree with Demeter's and Echo's posts; It is my opinion that Helen was the most important female in the "Iliad" because she played the most important role. Without Helen, the Trojan War would not have even started. It began when Paris stole Helen, the most beautiful woman in all of the land. At this time in ancient Greece, women, such as Helen, were symbols of honor to men. They could also be traded like valuables, so they resembled prizes. The Trojan War was started when Helen's previous husband, naturally, wanted her back. Without Helen, the war would not have even began, heroes would not have been sucsessful and/or they would not have failed, and the God's interventions would not have occurred.
Also, without Helen other crucial parts to the story would not have happenned. For example, she tried to prevent Hektor from fighting with Paris, but he didn’t listen. Hektor decided instead to go and fight with Paris. Poor Helen, it is also my opinion that she almost feels upset about causing all of the trouble. Like Demeter clearly stated, she also doesn’t want to be with Paris, and would rather be anywhere but there with him.
“How I wish that on that day when my mother first bore me the foul whirlwind of the storm ahead caught me away and swept me to the mountain, or into the wash of the sea deep-thundering where the waves would have swept me away before all these things had happened.” (VI. 21-24)
I agree with Demeter and Echo in the sence that I, Helen, played a significant role in the Iliad, but women in general were a great motivation. If a man was truly a hero, the greek community believed that that man should fight in the war for their country and for their woman. The reason the trojan war was started in the first place was because Paris and menaulus had gotten into a fight over my hand. If they had never qaurreled, the war would never have been started. The reason the war started might have been because of my love, but the motivation of men fighting in the war in general was because their wives or lovers wanted them to fight for community expectations.
"I wish I had been the wife of a better man than this is, one who knew modesty and all things of shame that men say. But this man's heart is a steadfast thing, nor yet will it be so ever hereafter; for that I think he shall take the consequence."
This quote shows how I may have been falling for a few different men, which caused the men to become angry and start the trojan war.
There is no denying that Helen played a major role in the Iliad and affected the plot directly. After all, she was the reason the Trojan War erupted. However, I don’t believe she was the most significant female in the Iliad. Because the Trojan War started before book one of Iliad, the Iliad is its own story entirely. With that having been said, I feel Chryseis was the most essential female to the Iliad. Chryseis, Apollo’s priest’s daughter, was the cause for the rift between Achilleus and Agamemnon.
When Agamemnon refused to give up Chryseis as his prize, Achilleus was shocked at how selfish Agamemnon was being, and the Greeks especially valued good morals. In order for swift footed Achilleus to stay fighting for the Achaians, Agamemnon would have to give Chryseis back. The capture and release of Chryseis, immediately caused tension between both Achilleus and Agamemnon. This was the foundation for the Iliad sparking components to the story – making Chryseis extremely important in motivating action and shaping the future.
“Zeus’ son and Leto’s, Apollo, who in anger at the kings drove the foul pestilence along the host, and the people perished, since Atreus’ son had dishonored Chryseis, priest of Apollo, when he came beside the fast ships of the Achaians to ransom back his daughter, carrying gifts beyond count and holding gin his hands wound on a staff of gold the ribbons of Apollo who strikes from afar,”
I agree with the first few comments. Helen played a very significant role in the Iliad as well as all other women. The cause of the trojan war was because of hektor and paris's feud over Helen's love. It is true that one of the main causes of the war was two men fighting over one woman, Helen. In addition, fighting the war in general may have been caused by womens' strong hold over men and being told what they should be doing.
“How I wish that on that day when my mother first bore me the foul whirlwind of the storm ahead caught me away and swept me to the mountain, or into the wash of the sea deep-thundering where the waves would have swept me away before all these things had happened.”
I disagree with all of the posts saying that Helen was the most significant role in Iliad. Its true that she was the factor that threw these two places into war but other females had more of an affect in the war than Helen, such as Venus. Venus was more in the background and was only important in the beginning of the story, but she gave Helen to Paris and from there it is almost like the domino effect. One thing triggered another. That is why I believe that Athena has the most important role in this epic tale. Athena is the woman who enables Achilles to kill Hektor and she is also the woman that holds his temper back when need be. She has control over Achilles and Zeus. She convinces him to allow Achilleus to live and condems Hektor to death.
"Athene left him there, and caught up with brilliant Hektor, and likened herself in for and weariless voice to Deiphobos. She came now and stood close to him and addressed him in winged words: ' Dear brother, indeed swift-footed Achilleus is using you roughly and chasing you on swift feet around the city of Praim. Come on then; let us stand fast against him and beat him back from us.'"(XXII. 129-134)
In my opinion, Helen definately played the most significant role in The Iliad. Would the story of The Illiad ever existed at all if it wasn't for Helen? I mean, the Trojan War would never have came about if it wasn't for Helen. Everything that preceded the plot that occured including the major events and climax would never have been written. The whole embarkment of the story was because Paris had to have the most satisfactory goddess as possible. Since this, Paris had to steal Helen from her husband, Menelaus. She decides to stick with him, causing the Trojan War's beginning. A major leading event that precede the capture of Helen is when the Achaean army sacks Chryse eventually causing the death of many Achaeans.
“How I wish that on that day when my mother first bore me the foul whirlwind of the storm ahead caught me away and swept me to the mountain, or into the wash of the sea deep-thundering where the waves would have swept me away before all these things had happened.” (VI. 21-24)
(This was Helen's sorrow towards bringing about the Trojan War's beginning in the first place.)
I agree with Diana. Athene played one of the most important roles of influencing women in "The Ilaid".
She has some sort of influence or control over almost everyone. When Achilleus gets so angered by Agememnon that he wants to fight him, Athene comes down and stops his actions. Achilleus obeys Athene, and what she says. When Achilleus becomes tired of war and grieves for Patroklos, Athene urges him to fight and kill Hektor. She also has a very important supernatural intervention, which helps Achilleus to kill Hektor.
Athene is definitely the most important woman in "The Ilaid".
I agree with the logic behind all previous posts. Helen, Athene, Chryseis, and Aphrodite certainly played very significant roles in The Iliad. However, I believe that Thetis is the most important female character of all.
Thetis is a water nymph goddess and also the mother of Achilles, the prized Achean warrior and whose rage The Iliad revolves around. When Agamemnon takes Briseis from Achilles, it is Thetis who asks Zeus on her son's behalf to help the Trojans during the first half of the war. Although Hera supported the Greeks, Zeus had to oblige to Thetis's demands because he owed her a favor.
Also, when Achilles needed a new set of armor it was Thetis who went to Hephaistos begging him to make a new one for Achilles. "For I am coming to you at dawn and as the sun rises bringing splendid armor to you from the lord Hephaistos." (Book 18, lines 59-60) As beautiful and lethal as described, the new armor created by a god, gave Achilles that extra boost of confidence he needed to slay Hektor.
Besides the ability to sway men, Thetis also gives wisdom to her son. Frequently thoughout the story, Achilles has long conversations with his mother in which he confides his deepest, darkest desires and seeks guidance. In an age when women are portrayed merely as conquests, Thetis proves to be someone a strong male character, such as Achilles, dearly depends on and a powerhouse force not to be reckoned with.
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